The Dave Burgess Show
The New York Times Best Selling author of Teach Like a Pirate, Dave Burgess, leads rich conversations with fascinating guests on wide-ranging topics such as education, entrepreneurship, principles of success, mindset, fitness, wellness, and, most importantly, topics that will inspire, empower, and uplift YOU.
The Dave Burgess Show
69: Talking Teachables w/ Lisa Maxfield & Cheryl Abla
Wonderful chance to chat with the authors of Teachables: Bite size Strategies that Make a Major Impact in the Classroom, Lisa Maxfield and Cheryl Abla. We discuss their journeys in education and lots of classroom strategies you can implement right away!!
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Hey, welcome back to the Dave Virgis Show. Thank you so much for joining us. And I am joined by two of our amazing authors that Dave Virgil Consulting Incorporated, and that is Lisa Maxfield and Cheryl Abla. And they are the authors of teachables, bite-sized strategies that make a major impact in the classroom. Lisa, Cheryl, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, we're happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And so where I wanted to start is the book starts with this kind of strange juxtaposition. And that at the very beginning of the book, it says from Lisa, there's a section that says, Why I didn't become a teacher. And then Cheryl says, Why I did become a teacher. And so maybe if we could just kind of like a do a little uh brief intro as to like why that is the way that you all decided to open the book.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we decided to open it because of advice from you, actually, because you were saying make it a little bit more personable with your stories a little bit, because we wanted to just get right in there and get to the components and the strategies. And you were like, no, let's talk about a little bit about both of you. And we we were contemplating it, thinking about it, and just came up with this idea of we come from two different worlds then, because we're co-authoring this book for teachers, but I was not a teacher. And I wanted to be 100% transparent about that. I did not want to, as I mentioned, not even for a nanosecond, did I want to mislead anyone? I did some um some classroom teaching, um, not with my teaching certificate, but it was it was about um here's where I came from and here are some of the different obstacles that came across, but um just pivoted. I pivoted and here we are. And Cheryl and I, you know, we're meant to work together and then just got this grand plan about this book as we were working on another project and just went from there and just didn't stop. We did for a little bit. We got a little discouraged at one point, and Cheryl came and she was like, Lisa, the teachers are telling me when I'm in these schools, they're saying we need this kind of book. And I said, Let's do it, let's do it. So we started it back up.
SPEAKER_02:And although you were not a classroom teacher, sort of your career has been a part of education for a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely. I've worked in the education sector my entire career for uh age myself. So for 30 some years, I've worked at school district, I worked for uh an NSF grant, worked at a research and education organization, um, just always been there. And it has helped fuel me to say I'm helping in my small way that is trickling down to help all those kiddos that I originally wanted to be uh teaching.
SPEAKER_02:And don't worry about aging yourself with the 30 plus years thing. Everyone will just assume that you started when you were six.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, okay, very good. I'm good with that then.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, perfect. And then Cheryl, so it's the it's this is not your story. Your story is that it seems like you you basically taught almost every grade. And so you were in the classroom for a long time.
SPEAKER_00:I was a really long time. I won't age myself either, but yes, it was a long time. And I um I just had this amazing third grade teacher that I wore this body brace and I couldn't look down. Um, and she had a test uh desk built so that I could, you know, see my work. And um, she just made everything so much better than it had been in my previous first and second grade year. And um, I just I don't know, as the years went on, I thought, boy, it'd be great to be able to make a difference like she did for me and um just what a life-changing moment that was. But yes, my career has taken me to um several places that teaching actually. I started in third grade and kind of went up to fourth, fifth, sixth, and then I had an opportunity to teach um seventh and eighth, and then in different places Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and then Colorado. So um kind of wherever there was something that needed filled, I was like, I can do that, I can get that certification, you know, I'll just I'll give it a go, see how it feels. So um anyway, that's kind of what led me to all the different grades. High school, it was German culture, but it did um teach me a lot about high school behaviors and what they're just bigger kids. I mean, they're just bigger bodies and still kids. They respond to the same things my first graders did. So, and uh so it really helped me just to kind of see the light of all the different grade levels, which has really helped me in my position now.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like that's something that is a strength for you two in the book, is that uh well, so Cheryl with having that diverse experience, all these different grade levels and being in all sorts of different schools, and then also Lisa, you seeing school systems from the kind of the outside looking in and being also a part of working with so many different schools and districts, you have this kind of broader perspective uh about what it is that is what is what's going on, what what is needed, what is necessary, and that you kind of have all you've curated all of that and brought it forward in the book.
SPEAKER_00:That was really our plan. And Lisa is such a she's always one of those people that I'm kind of a conceptual person, a big idea, but Lisa has always been, we got we've been able to work together now um over 11 years. So um she can just really take the idea and move it forward, and she knows the steps to follow to get that, you know, project moved forward. And it was, it has just been the best combo, and it still remains just such a great um partnership between the two of us.
SPEAKER_02:So I think that this book, um, there's several books that are like this, but this is a good example of I think some people don't understand what happens behind the scenes of making a book, and they just think that, like, say, an author turns in their work and then we like proofread it and like print it and it goes out. And there's this whole developmental editing and production team work on it, and back and forth, and iterations, and conversations that happen behind the scenes of a book. And your book is a very much example of that where it's kind of it took many twists and turns and came in different kinds of uh versions along the way to get to where we are today. So maybe if you could talk a little bit about like what that process was and whether you were surprised at the um kind of level of conversation that went around the book behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely. Because I remember after talking with you and you were like, we want to publish it, and we were all excited, and you were like, About how far along are you? Oh, we're 90% there. You know, we we get to where we're 100%. We're like, you know, here we got it. This is great. We turn it in and we get the edits back and we're like, oh, there's wait a second, there's some really, really great ideas. But what was really nice with working with with your team was they gave, um, you know, you gave some great advice again, was starting with the personal stories at the beginning, feedback that came through, but it still kept our voice. And it wasn't you coming in and saying, you have to do fill in the blank. It was have you thought about so we so we got guidance from you, which I think was really nice because it did still, um, it was still our vision with what we we got. But there's so much behind the scenes. You're right. I mean, you hear that all the time. People saying, oh, you know, somebody just write a book. And and people have said, or are you gonna write another one? And I'm like, you have no idea what what goes into it the time. I mean, as Cheryl was saying, I'm I'm a project manager as well. And the the checklists that I have, the spreadsheets that I have, tracking. I mean, there's so many things that go into uh writing a book that it's just it's just not as simple as people think, but it is but it is so rewarding when you when you get that copy and you're like, wow, you know, we did this. This is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So Cheryl, you mentioned the the fact that you're kind of a big idea person and um it's it's wonderful when we can bring someone into our life that is the checklist person, right? That's able to get things.
SPEAKER_00:We have to have them to move forward.
SPEAKER_02:So in Daybird's consulting, I am kind of the um, you know, speaking and going on my rants and have these like these ideas and all that kind of stuff like that. But I have to have my Wendy. Like I have to have my Wendy that has like, hey, have you mailed that package yet? I sent you that label like like yesterday. Like that needs to get into the mail. Like I have to have that person that says, I see you haven't even booked a hotel for the next event. And where where are you? Do you even know where you're staying? I have to have the person that like makes sure that um I actually show up at all these events.
SPEAKER_00:So true. So true. Makes everything so much better. And it's not that we can't do it, Dave. That's what I always say. We can do it. It just takes a lot of brain energy that is not natural in the process. So thank goodness we have Wendy and Lisa to help us take it.
SPEAKER_01:Thank goodness we have uh you two with those big ideas. It's such a great partnership.
SPEAKER_02:Now, I just published something a little while ago about books being what I think is like the greatest value for your money. Like there's no place in the world where you can get more value for your money than with a book. Because if you think about a book, um, what often has happened is people have taken their entire career, their life of hard-won experience and curated that and brought it, distilled it and turned it into something that costs like$20. It was like what it's just absolutely incredible. And so that's something that you two did, and you talked about how like you have all this experience from all these different areas, and now here is something that has been distilled for teachers that's gonna really help them. And then even one of the things I love about your book is you have this above and beyond sections where it there's links to even more resources that are that they can access and ability to like see videos and the readings and all that kind of stuff like that. And so um, maybe if you could share a little bit about like how the book is just kind of the starting place, but it actually links out to so many other things.
SPEAKER_00:Well, one of the processes we wanted to have was just simple and easy. So you could pick up the book at any place, and it's not you could read from front to back. And there's been a few people that have and have reached out and told us how much they loved, you know, the different stories and the layout, but you can also just pick it up anywhere and try something and just see how it works, if it's something you haven't done before, or um, maybe we offered a way to tweak it or modify it just a little bit. And um, and then you can, you know, go to that above and beyond section that you mentioned, Dave. And that was it's really whenever you want to take it to that next level. Maybe somebody that's been in teaching for a long time and has, you know, done quite a bit, but really wants to level kind of deepen maybe project-based learning or something. And they look at the above and beyond and it brings in um a different perspective and really helps um get the project going with the details. And more than likely, it probably has a little video or a link to, you know, maybe a an action guide to pull it forward. But um, most of them are quick and easy and can be implemented right away. The above and beyonds take a little bit longer. Sometimes you need to read something just to know how to incorporate that into your classroom.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I the the book for people uh it's fantastic. It's available everybody, buy books, pick up a copy. It's kind of there's four key components that they focus on relationships, organizations, and procedures, curiosity and engagement, and then high expectations. And speaking of the relationships piece, um, Lisa, you recently wrote a wonderful guest blog post for us, which um I'll link in the show notes for people about because you never know, about this importance of relationships. And um, I was wondering if you could kind of share with us a little about that blog post. And uh there were two lines that I love at the end. It says, before you teach the standards, build the connection, before you manage the classroom, nurture the relationship. Um, maybe if you could give us a little um kind of short version of that blog. And also uh you talk about this idea of building empathy to build community in there too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, so my my son was in the ICU and as he was in there for I think five days. It's such a whirlwind when things like that happen, you kind of forget time. Um, but as he as he was getting better at the last, um, you know, I'm walking up and down the halls, I'm seeing people, and there happened to be a room right next to him that I've been walking by for four days and never saw anybody there. And I had the ability because I did not have a job at the time, um, to be able to be there from the moment I could in ICU until they kicked you out at the end of the day. But as I'm watching just people come in and out, it just made me think about that you just never know what's going on because here's this person in the in the room next to me. And in my head, I'm thinking, do they not have any family? Do they not have any friends? You know, that kind of goes through because you don't know what somebody else is going through. That person could be living, you know, in a state where they don't have any friends or family. Their friends and family might be working two jobs, etc. So it just kind of got me thinking, and then teachables is always on my brain, um, I guess, even in the hospital, as my son's finally getting better. Um, and I started writing actually just sort of how I was feeling. I'm I'm not always really great about my feelings. And I was trying to like write them down, and it really morphed into the not knowing what people are going through. And then it made me think about, you know, kids who are going to school and you don't know what just happened, or teachers or administrators, whomever, anybody in the school building, what might have just happened 10 minutes before they left home. And maybe that's why they're not in a good mood or they, you know, whatever it might be. So, and I think that's some of what we put in teachables was um walk in my shoes is is one of them within relationships where it's trying to help build empathy. And that's one where the with the QR code in the book that goes to the website is we have, I think about 11 videos that teachers would be able to use if maybe even in their classroom they just saw something, you know, somebody being bullied or feeling down. And to say, you know what, I can pull up this video and I can show these kids and let's let them think about it and then let's talk about what it is you just saw in this video. And so that's where it came to then writing that blog was just trying to get my feelings out about what is going through. And then all this other stuff starts popping in. And I just kept thinking, in life in general, all of us, I think, need to sometimes just stop and pause and say, we don't know what that person who just got us off in traffic is going through, and just be more empathetic in that way.
SPEAKER_02:I absolutely love that. And it's interesting how when you read something, depending on kind of what you're going through, is what you see. Like for I can read a book and pick out some set of things, and then maybe at another part of my life, I reread that book and it's a whole other set of things that hit me. And that was the case with like, say, your blog post is there was that piece of it. And then, like, one of the pieces that resonated with me was um, which was not the purpose of the blog post necessarily, but yet just really hit me was this idea that um you had just had a uh career transitional moment happen, right? Which was maybe something that could be trade, be portrayed as um in a negative light, but it actually puts you in a place in your life where you could be there. And so it was like kind of seeing blessings in things which we uh often, you know, you can you can find blessings in many circumstances which you wouldn't expect.
SPEAKER_01:I completely agree. And that is how I how I saw it. I felt very blessed because my personality is I don't want to let other people down. I want to be helpful. And the thought that I would have been letting, you know, coworkers down or and colleagues down for not being in meetings or doing whatever. Um, it it did. It felt like it was just such a blessing um to not have to worry about that. So I could 100% focus on my son and my family. Um, and I think we just have to look at things like that. Sometimes we have to, I don't know if I want to say spin it, um, but just try and put a positive light on it and just see some things as a as a blessing that it was just meant to be that way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. In this section uh in this of the book on relationships, uh, there was something that stood out to me, which I thought was something I have not done before, but it made me think that, like, oh, this is actually, I could see the value in this um exercise. And so, Cheryl, maybe I'll ask you about this one. It talks about having um, like before we look at this relationship, so let's look at our class list and kind of go through these reflective questions. And some of the questions were like, Why did that student make such an impression on me? Uh, what makes this student stand out? And how do you know you have a good relationship with this student? And how did the relationship start and how did it blossom? And so I really like this idea of focusing in on each kid and thinking about this, these questions. And then maybe you have great answers for those, and but maybe you don't. Maybe you're like, oh, I'm not really sure what stands out about this student. I'm how did that my relationship start with this kid? And uh maybe I don't have a good relationship with a student. Maybe I need this is a student that I need to reach out for. And so uh I thought this was like a really powerful exercise that teachers could do when they look at their class list.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think that sense of belonging is so important for kids and adults both. So um having some type of connection to that student is just so important. So you can, at least when you greet them at the door in the morning, you can have, you know, something to check in with them about. Um, I was just working with high school teachers this last week, and they were telling me they have about 180 kids, you know, in their high school that they see each day. And then how how can we as a high school teacher really be able to see them and let them know that we see them? And um just kind of talking through if you just had one connection or knew something about them, maybe it's a hobby that they have or a sports team that they follow. Um, and I always show them an example that I saw in Virginia where a teacher just has a handprint and they put their um different character traits and kind of what gets in the way of their learning, hobbies and such along, you know, the outside perimeter of the picture that they create, but just something where you can actually connect with that student just makes them feel seen and heard, um, and just how important that little, that little small snippet can actually be for a student.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I was just on a panel on like a live stream, and one of the things that we were talking about was building rapport with kids. And I said, like, like, I want to know everything I can about them. I want to know what music they listen to, I want to know what television shows they watch, I want to know what movie they're excited about that's coming out this next weekend, I want to know what their extra cooker activities are. All these things are ways that I can possibly then connect with this kid, maybe tie my content into it. And it's all kind of um, you know, creating a large, a greater context around each kid. And all those, you know, maybe later in the year something pops up in the curriculum, like, oh, here's something I can connect to so-and-so about because and it it for me, I do it on the play, I on the first day of school, I have the Play-Doh lesson where they create something that's somehow related to themselves. And um, that's how they kind of introduce themselves. And I can't tell you how many times over the course of a school year I will later connect with something, like maybe they made a solar system, and because they're all into space and all that kind of stuff like that, and then we get to the lunar landing, and I know, like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be perfect for this person. I remember they made that solar system on the first day of school, and just those connections are just so powerful and can be used you know over and over again.
SPEAKER_00:So important. And I use your little Play-Doh activity at the beginning of all my workshops for me to help build connections with my audience to kind of get to know. My sessions aren't as large as yours, Dave. Mine are usually at the most around 40. So, but that way I have that connection with even adults. Um, something else that I've seen that has been really meaningful and helpful is just having pictures of students um up on chart paper, and then teachers being able to write or put up little, even just sometimes they have just put dots when it's a really large staff, so that you can see what connections you have with your students at your school, and then being able to step back and say, oh, look, we've got three or four right here that we know we need to reach out to specifically. So I like that too for middle school, high school, whenever there's so many students and they only are with them for a short, you know, amount of time. But that way it's on everyone's radar that we need to make more connections with some of these students just based on the little dots, sticker dots that we've put up. So um, just so very important part of the learning process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and so there's so many strategies in the book. Um, and you mentioned something about putting stuff on a wall, and so that reminded me of something that I had pulled out that I wanted to ask about, and this idea of what you two referred to in the book as a katya, and uh and then maybe creating a katya wall. Um, maybe if you could tell everyone what what do you mean by a katya?
SPEAKER_01:So basically it's I caught you doing something great. What what did you do? And it's not just the teacher doing it, it's the students as well, your peers. So, you know, I'm I'm walking in and Jonathan opened the door for me and said good morning, and he's never spoken to me. I mean, it can be something like that where it's like I caught you being kind to me, and you can post it. And it just it can brighten someone's day. I was telling Cheryl about a quick story with my grandson that happened just yesterday morning. Where before I was taking him to school, I asked him if he could pick up these uh his toys, and he immediately did it, which he's five, so that doesn't always happen. And I was like, I want to let his mom know. So I was doing uh talk to text, and I was texting her saying how proud I was of him, as he, you know, he picked up, he did a great job, got them all. And he's looking at me and his face starts to brighten and he gets this smile. And I was like, he's getting a smile, and then an even bigger smile. So here's a young man who hears good things, um, you know, from his from his parents, his grandparents, his uncle. Um, but I think about those kiddos that are coming to school that aren't hearing that. So in the classroom, then you can have that teacher and those peers recognizing um those being those being that kindness and the helping and all that, and being able to post it because it does make somebody feel good when they when they see something nice or hear something nice about themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it's it's interesting how often a lot of these connections can be made around the edges of the class, like what it's the what gets said to a student when they enter the classroom, what how you open your class, how you like all these uh small things which seem to not make a big impact. Actually, when you add them all up, they can be huge. And you both talk in the book even about like just how you open your class and greet people. And um, it reminded me, so I have this greeting in my class. Um, so I would say good morning, and they would say good morning back, and but it was like this whole situation where, like, however, I say good morning, that's how you say good morning to me. And like I would do it in crazy accents and different, like, you know, I'd be like, one day, and then they would the whole class and be like, or they would have to like mimic me, you know? And so it was just like a way of kind of a little call and response, but it was always humorous because of like, oh, how is he gonna say it today? And like, how how well are we gonna be able to mimic like how he says it? And then I would say, Welcome to class, thank you for coming. My name's Dave Burgess, and I'll be your host on this learning extravaganza. Let's go! And it was just kind of a ritual for me to kind of like one, thank them for being there, which I think we don't do often enough. It's like um an honor for them to come and spend this time with us and share this space with us in our classroom. And so I would thank them every single day for being there and then kind of just have this little ritual that would get me excited about getting ready to fulfill my role and hopefully get them excited about being there and just kind of um energize the situation. But even just something like a greeting can make an impact in class culture and building relationships.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. You just you you created energy from the very beginning, and that's contagious. So, I mean, I I I can't imagine that there were too many kids that weren't taking part in the good morning and all of that. Um, or if they and if they weren't, I'm sure you noticed, and that was somebody that then you probably went to chat with because of that building the relationship, like, hey, you know, is everything going on, everything going okay with you today and stuff. So that's cool.
SPEAKER_02:That's yeah. Carlos Santana, he uh he said the enthusiasm is the most contagious thing in the world. The songs become incidental, what people receive is your joy. And then in the in my book, I wrote about how like what I think of is like the lessons become incidental, what people receive is our joy. Like I want them to have a sense of that um we find teaching to be a joyful um activity, and that it's not a drag, it's not we're not punching the clock, but like there's a true sense of like, I actually like being here with you and I like students and I like what I do and what I teach. And um it's so important for kids to feel that.
SPEAKER_01:Cheryl's always always saying that. That's her mantra is joyful teaching, right, Cheryl?
SPEAKER_00:It is, yes, absolutely. And I want, you know, it's it should be the happiest place for teachers and students. Absolutely. Just everybody wants to be there.
SPEAKER_02:Now, if someone were to flip through your book, one of the things that might kind of like uh give them a double take is to see some of the quotes in a different language. And you know, so you like just kind of thumb through and like, oh, like I don't what does that quote say? Like wait, there's a quote in it. That's that's not in English. Like, what's going on here? And so I was wondering if you could explain why some of the quotes in your book are in different languages.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So we did that because we wanted to model what we were saying. So one of our um strategies is called Where in the World. And one of the recommendations we say is you know, have quotes up on your wall, but they don't all have to be in English. If you've got a you know, Spanish speaker, uh Japanese speaker, student, whatever, put some quotes uh up in their language. you know, it use whatever, you know, Google Translate, which is what we use for the book. So it might not be 100% accurate if somebody who's a native language speaker read it. But you're trying. And that's why we did it throughout the book was basically just to say model what we're we're saying in the book as well. And if you do flip to it and you see it, you're like, where is that? And then you'll find it later in the book. But it's all about modeling and um you know and and really just um just making sure everybody's welcome. And that's one way to be able to do that is is by having, you know, like one of the things in that strategy as well is we're saying don't just have posters of you know past presidents. If you're just because you're teaching history doesn't mean you have to have all the past presents. There are so many people that have contributed um in history from all walks of you know every country everywhere every you know so so change that up as well to make and that's going to welcome people even if your classroom um maybe doesn't have anybody from Japan. That doesn't mean you don't have to have this awesome scientist who came out of Japan who had this great invention or something.
SPEAKER_02:So you're saying that our history walls don't just have to be filled with dead white men that's exactly what we put in the book exactly old white guys don't have to be there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right exactly um and there there's something um that's very like kind of honoring about for a student to see something on the classroom wall like in their native language right and then um beyond that which is even more important than this but there is something else that I noticed just seeing the quote in a different language as I thumb through the book there's a hook nature of this too there's a curiosity factor right and so when you see something and that's that you can't read or decipher it immediately immediately makes you go like I gotta know what that says. Like what does that say up there? And it gives it so there's some curiosity and I know that's something that you two both believe in and you have a whole section on curiosity and engagement in the book. And so that's modeling that strategy as well. Absolutely so tell me on this curiosity and engagement you there's a kind of reflective questions at the beginning of that chapter too where it kind of asks teachers to look at what they're doing in class now and um in a self-reflective way think about whether or not these what they're what they're currently doing is increasing curiosity leading to more curiosity and whether it's leading to more engagement. So maybe if you could talk us through that kind of reflective process.
SPEAKER_00:Well and that was a big part of um kind of our process in writing the book is to really have teachers reflect on how are they doing with with each of these different big components and and then really consider how could it be strengthened? And are students excited and curious about what it is they're learning and how do we how do we craft that so they they will lean in there's just something about a student that all eyes as you know Dave are on you and they want to know more and they're asking questions and they're talking to each other and they're asking can we look can we look that up can we see what that is you know what that actually looks like and I think that that is such an important piece to active learning instead of passive learning and how do we craft our lessons so that curiosity piece is you know threaded throughout the lesson to keep them engaged and processing and learning more or really getting them to want to know more, which is one of the tools that we talk about too is just that wonder wall because so often your intent is to teach this standard and you're going to cover it and by doing all these fun things to get them engaged. But then also so often it springboards into something else they want to know more about later but having a wonder wall up where we could post some of those interesting questions. I know my students wanted to know more about a pandemic when we were we were working in science about germs and such and and then all those students you know messaged later because they lived through it but they were little fourth graders when we you know were were doing that unit. And uh but part of that was taking the time to when we had a minute we would dig into pandemics and how did they start and you know where do they originate and where's the big where's the big hub where they um you know really begin to spread to other countries. And um it's just it's just that curiosity piece and and valuing their curiosity and giving it a voice too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I think this this idea of having teachers examine their current practice and look for areas that it could be strengthened is that is kind of a missing piece often is that we're just quick to just give exit give strategies to teachers and without really having them like they're going to be more receptive to them if they say like oh yeah actually I could use some help in this area if they've had that reflective moment first. And it reminds me of like a Stephen Covey um like seek first to um understand before you're understood kind of an idea or a uh making sure you diagnose before you prescribe and as professional development leaders sometimes we're really good at prescribing and not as good at stepping back and making sure that we diagnose what is what's necessary.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely so true.
SPEAKER_02:Speaking of consulting um Cheryl I know that you recently have kind of stepped out on your own and become a full-time consultant and traveling and speaking doing workshops and trainings and things like that. And I was wondering what that lots of people consider doing that and think about that decision. It like weighs heavily on lots of people that kind of have their feet in both worlds. And I was wondering if you could share what kind of that thought process was for you and how it's been with like jumping out on your own.
SPEAKER_00:Well it was scary. It was really scary at first because um working in schools you you have a safety net. You know your content you know what you're doing you're and and then even the last 11 years really being part of you know a company that is all about education you it's kind of a safety net. But I was just still so passionate about making a difference for teachers and students. And I really wanted to continue wasn't real sure how to go about that. But um after some research and then taking a leap of faith um I wanted to continue. So it's not like anything would change greatly around what I was doing in schools, but to be able to really put it out there and see if others you know wanted to continue the work that we had started. And then it was has been really um what do I want to say it's been really humbling to hear from other people I've worked with in the past that want to continue and have me be a part of their school learning process. And and I think that they they just know that I will give it everything I've got and will help them get to their get to their end goal of really making you know a difference for the learning in these classrooms with these students. So um it's been so nice to to for it to have worked let's say that that's been that's been great and people just know my passion once they get to be around me for a little bit and um now kind of like a teacher I love hearing from the educators I get to work with when I get an I got an email out of the blue yesterday and I just where it's you know what we've done has made an impact. It's still that same it's like low light bulb moment where it all comes together and they're implementing these things and um I just love hearing that it's making a difference or I really like being in the schools and seeing it make a difference. So um it it's been a great thing. It really has.
SPEAKER_02:People seem to think that these decisions come easily and they never do. And like I can remember looking back on my decision to leave the classroom and to go full time and this was before I had I had published Teach Like Pirate but I did not have um I wasn't publishing other books at that time. So it was just me my speaking and my book when I made that decision and um I think people would look back on that and say well that was like the easiest choice of all time right and it was not the easiest choice of all time like to walk away from the retirement system to walk away from you know your the like people would say like are you kidding me like do you know how much you're gonna lose in your pension and like all this kind of stuff like this and what what are you going to do for insurance and like have you seen what insurance cost like all like uh uh what yeah your book is hot now but what what's gonna happen in two years like is it still like you know books don't laugh like all this kind of stuff like this and um it's easy in hindsight to say that uh something was easy was a simple decision and in the moment you're always kind of sweating it out yes that is the truth very much so yes I heard all those things for sure so yes I just want to throw in there I think one of Cheryl's I think it's a unique piece that she does when she's doing the consulting is she actually models the teaching she goes in and will teach a classroom like cold or she'll even step up if a teacher's struggling as she's been talking with them and she'll team teach with them.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's one of Cheryl's superpowers is being able to do that so she can model it right there as opposed to just telling them a little bit what to do but she's like let me show you and then she's hearing students say oh my gosh that was so much fun. I learned this today and she's also hearing the teachers say I had no idea my students could do that. I didn't think they could but they had never given them that opportunity. So then Cheryl steps in and she's like give them the chance to be able to do that. And because the way she can do that with the modeling um I think is awesome. And as you can tell I'm a big cheerleader of Cheryl.
SPEAKER_03:She's awesome it's the truth.
SPEAKER_02:And that kind of ties into the last section of the book you mentioned that teacher saying like I didn't know that my students could do that. And that really ties kind of into that section of having those high expectations for kids and maybe that's something that um sometimes we don't realize how significant our expectations of what they can do like it's like a almost can be like a direct correlation to what they actually do. So maybe if you could speak a little bit about why you think it's so important for us to have these high expectations.
SPEAKER_00:Well I think so often when given the chance and we set that bar high, kids will rise to the occasion over and over and over again. And um and I do Lisa was that that is where I thrive like let me be can we just try this together can we you know that is where I bring I still get my greatest joy is being in those classrooms and I don't have any preconceived I don't know their test scores. I don't know where the strugglers are when I'm in there. So I'm expecting everybody to be able to do you know the the teaching each other and carousels of learning and just fun um engaging or talk student talk and collaboration pieces. So it's just my expectation is they do that and and they do over and over again just they they rise to the occasion and I think it's just our preconceived notion can they do it can they not do it and um taking a chance and and trying and I always say it me I before I even get up in front of people or before they leave a workshop I'm like it's not going to be beautiful and perfect the first time that's okay but don't quit and don't quit after three or four times. Just keep at it they will they will get the hang of it and and it's magical so um yes just high expectations are just so very very important for all our students to to believe in them and have a belief that they can do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah no not not surprisingly looking at thinking of the four sections of the book with the relationships and the um curiosity engagement and then ending with the high expectations there's one that of course I skipped over um which is the organization and procedures and there's now um there's a tendency I think for people to think that that would be something that's um limiting and kind of dry but actually um when like I'm giving my creativity workshop one of the things that I tell them is that there's this paradoxical thing about creativity. Most people think that great freedom leads to creativity and often it's the opposite it's like constraints restrictions and like some structure like you can have great creativity within structure. In fact having some structure allows you to that takes some of the um day-to-day things that just have to happen takes care of that so it frees up space for you to be able to have more innovative and creative things going on in your classroom but if you don't have that structure as like kind of the backbone of your class it could be chaotic right and so Lisa I was wondering if you could um I'm asking the checklist person right the uh about the importance of teach how important it is for teachers and I think especially new teachers struggle with this to have some structure some procedures and some organization to what they do.
SPEAKER_01:Well absolutely you need to have that because if you think about your class starting if you don't have procedures of you know where to turn in homework or um you know for doing a bell starter what do we need to do how long are we going to do it? Am I supposed to work with somebody if you've created those structures ahead of time and you've practiced them, you've modeled them and you've practiced them again and again you're going to then get it it's not going to happen on day two where all the students are going to be all you know doing exactly what they need to you're gonna need to keep practicing it. But in the end that's going to end up saving you time later because it's like oh okay class is starting doot doot do these three things are done now we can get going with what we need to do with the with the lesson. And it's really important the other one is being able to bring your class together. So you're hoping those students are talking to one another right because you got them talking um it's not just you talking as the teacher the students are doing it too but then there's time where you got to bring them back together. So how are you going to do it? And if you don't have a way to bring them back together with some sort of um quiet you know a ding a you know whatever clap clap anything you want to do um we could say say four five six seven uh yeah no come on right you wouldn't I had to do it you just you just that was a trauma trigger for a lot of teachers out there listening right now I know right it's so crazy it's so crazy I don't know how these things go but anyway you so you've got those because otherwise I've seen it in classrooms when I've done hundreds of walkthroughs is um you see the teacher start talking and the students are still talking and then they're getting frustrated and then they have to repeat their their instructions. But if you can get those procedures down where when I do this, you're gonna stop and now I've got everybody's attention, it's just gonna work smoother. So it that is such an important chapter. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and yeah I know you talk about sort of like uh designing and building norms together like as a class of what is expected and um bringing students into that process of creating those norms and all that. And I think it really is if you if you think about what you look at like a new teacher this is all teachers, but I especially think about with new teachers when they get dropped into a classroom for the first time there's like shell shock. And all these ideas that they had in their teacher credential program that just sounded so perfect like well those ideas are fantastic except for not if you can't pull your class together like not if you can't like you can't even like get them to listen to like start your class in that new idea that you have. So that's that's uh something that I think is really critical that you two added into the book.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. And and something that you just said you said coming out of the teacher credential we need to step back and say how many of these teachers do not have teaching credentials so think about having not had gone through school and getting even maybe a little dose of that or with student teaching you've got people who've never done it before going into a classroom and they have they don't have any of this no idea. So they haven't seen a teacher model it so that's why it's really important because I, you know, that'd be that'd be tough going in there. You had a whole career as something else and now you're walking into 30 30 kids who are bouncing off the wall.
SPEAKER_02:It it it reminds me of um Mike Tyson had this very famous quote where because people would always say like well here's what I'm gonna do against Mike Tyson like he's he's weak this way and that way and so I'm just gonna like sidestep is jab blah blah they would have like and then Mike Tyson famously said everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face a lot of times when teachers get dropped into a classroom for the first time like they got some great plans but uh wait until wait until the class doesn't quiet down when you want them to quiet down and all of a sudden you're gonna realize that like oh this is not what I expected it to be. Right. Yeah so um uh there's so many things in the book I sometimes when I'm reading a book I like to think about myself as a student and which one of these things were like oh I would have loved that or maybe things that I wouldn't have loved as much whatever it might be. But one of the ones that you talk about that I think that I would absolutely love is uh you have these whole series of different strategies, things that could be dropped into a classroom and one of them was hidden talent Tuesday. And if I was a student in a class um even as a teacher in a class uh I would have loved to share some of my hidden talents and different things that I could do. And you have Thankful Thursday and some just really some easy um I won't say easy but simple ideas that teachers could drop into their class that are going to really kind of change the classroom culture. And so what what kind of things have you seen with with incorporation of hidden talent Tuesday or thankful Thursday?
SPEAKER_00:Well I'm gonna start with Thankful Thursday. It um what I have seen is that how it changes the tone of the environment it's quick it's fast doesn't take it's kind of like a circle up time with any grade level pass a ball around and they say one thing they're thankful for but it's such a great way to start the class period or the day um because it puts you in that state of gratefulness that we know is so important for all of us. And um and then the hidden talent Tuesday is fun because it's another way to build connections and belonging. And sometimes some of not all of our students love to speak or read or present in front of the class but if they know how to roll their tongue you know really well they are more than happy to share that. They're happy to just share that sometimes playing a guitar something musical that you know we don't normally don't see um in the classroom. So it just helps build connections and once again kind of creates that positive tone for the classroom as well but it just and it makes it fun and it's predictable. So it's part of that organization piece too. They know what's coming on Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I I can think back to some Dave. Oh well I I so this possibly won't surprise you but I have a whole series of um hidden talents but the I immediately I thought of like well I'm what wait till you see what I could do with the Rubik's Cube. Oh but anyway yeah so I can re think back in my classroom and getting word you know like somebody will say something like hey did you know that like Jeremy can do a backflip whatever like what Jeremy could do like wait like everybody outside right now outside and we go out to the grass area like this and like it would be so this is like three four minutes of time but like the energy that could be like generated around everyone going outside to see Jeremy do a backflip and then popping back into the classroom and getting back into our lesson and like Jeremy feels like a superstar and everyone has fun with it. Or I remember I had a student who was um always had like a big belt buckle thing on and um one day I'll ask like what is this big belt buckle thing you wear and well he was a a rodeo champion right and he was uh had one for like roping right and I'm like you gotta be kidding me like will you will you rope for us? And he's like yeah I'll bring in my rope someday or what I'm like oh my we set this up and man you cannot believe how excited this class was to see this guy um uh show us like this skill and so like this guy you know he goes through school the entire school this is just something he does outside of school it never talks about it like this um but then like the rest of the year people were connecting and talking to him about um that and we got to the you know Westward expansion unit and we're talking about cowboys and stuff and everyone's like oh like everyone's like so excited uh to um for this guy to share so it's amazing those little outside things like that when they're allowed to bring what they're excited about outside of school inside of school it trans it can transform everything and they will never forget it either you know they'll always remember those little snippets of opportunities you took yeah that that guy was by the way for the rest of the year um his name was cowboy everyone's like creative classmates too cowboy all right fantastic hey listen uh teachables is such a spectacular book um we're really honored to have both of you in the Dabers Consulting Incorporated family it's been wonderful to see the feedback that people have sent in about the book and things they've posted and that you've all posted on social media things I've said about using the book and implementing the ideas and that's always what we love is um uh a great book is one thing but a great book that's being used by teachers and having stuff actually wind up in classrooms is even better and that's something that's happened with teachables and so we love that.
SPEAKER_01:If people wanted to connect with the two of you first of all use the teachables hashtag hashtag teachables on social media um if people want to connect with the two of you um whether it be for speaking or just to chat about the book what are the best places to get connected so our email is teachablesbook at gmail.com so you can reach us for any kind of a consulting um my this is Lisa my Twitter is at Leemaxfield29 and my blue sky is that as well and then I'm also on LinkedIn and then Cheryl and mine is just my first and last name Cheryl Abla and on Instagram and actually on Instagram we have our teachables too oh yeah yeah sorry so we have our teachables it's all in the book yes and um Cheryl Able and Blue Sky and um Twitter X and uh so yes I think that covered that covered everything.
SPEAKER_03:We are out there we'd love to all right yeah well thank you so much for being on the Dave Burgess show thank you thank you and thank you yes exactly thank you Dave thank you so much for listening to the Dave Burgess show let's go at Burgess Dave on Twitter my name is the Burgess Dave I Sunday